Am I the only one who gets annoyed when...

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	Topic: Am I the only one who gets annoyed when...
Posted : 14/06/10 / Views : 2663 / Replies : 27 /
Jodie.Shanks 58 posts last on: 23/09/11 send private reply	... when dirrectors try and cast you for parts at the other end of the country with no offer of payment or even travel expenses? I appreciate it's difficult filming on a low budget, but to ask actors in London to travel to the top end of Scotland for a few days filming with no offer of travel compensation or accommodation AND to ask them to provide their own costume. Well, that's juts a bit too much. This isn't just 'fun' little projects we 'like' to do. This is a career. As I told the director, you wouldn't ask a cab driver to take you somewhere for free, would you? End rant.

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	Reply #1
Posted : 10/06/10
MarkJoseph 537 posts last on: 07/02/12 send private reply	Wouldn't even CONSIDER a role if expenses weren't being provided. It should never cost you anything.

	Reply #2
Posted : 10/06/10
Jenna.Sharpe 209 posts last on: 07/02/12 send private reply	Hey Jodie, I kinda agree. Although sometimes I have been cheeky enough to ask my agent or even the director if they will cover travel expenses and often they do if you ask nicely. Depends on the location and the client I guess. I am based an hour outside of London so I have to be very selective as to what I audition for anyway as most of the time I know I will be making a loss on travel. It is a strange business really as you get to the point where you feel you are almost subsidizing people's film projects and creative enterprises by incurring the costs yourself! Tis the nature of the beast I guess.

Reply #2

Posted : 10/06/10

Jenna.Sharpe
209 posts
last on: 07/02/12
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Hey Jodie, I kinda agree. Although sometimes I have been cheeky enough to ask my agent or even the director if they will cover travel expenses and often they do if you ask nicely. Depends on the location and the client I guess.

I am based an hour outside of London so I have to be very selective as to what I audition for anyway as most of the time I know I will be making a loss on travel.

It is a strange business really as you get to the point where you feel you are almost subsidizing people's film projects and creative enterprises by incurring the costs yourself! Tis the nature of the beast I guess.

	Reply #3
Posted : 10/06/10
Amber4 128 posts last on: 07/02/12 send private reply	It should only cost you your time and energy - anything else should be covered in expenses at the very least. If they really don't have the budget to pay for travel and accommodation then they should ask for local actors with a base and certainly not expect people to travel, putting them out of pocket. All we ask is people to be up front with us about expenses/profit share etc so we can make the choice of whether to apply for the project or not in the first place.

Reply #3

Posted : 10/06/10

Amber4
128 posts
last on: 07/02/12
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It should only cost you your time and energy - anything else should be covered in expenses at the very least. If they really don't have the budget to pay for travel and accommodation then they should ask for local actors with a base and certainly not expect people to travel, putting them out of pocket.

All we ask is people to be up front with us about expenses/profit share etc so we can make the choice of whether to apply for the project or not in the first place.

	Reply #4
Posted : 10/06/10
markkempner 1113 posts last on: 07/02/12 send private reply	Oh ohhh...this subject (working for nowt etc) is off again! However, it's the ever growing hoards of actors willing to allow it to go on "regularly" - and our Union never seemingly condoning it that much, which has put us in the position we are in. The divide between amateur and professional is almost fully dissolved because of it. I'm all for a bit of collaboration all round…..but to work for Zero all the time…or paying your own travel fares to Scotland from the South, for a casting is professional madness, and does not make any form of business sense to me. It's simple…you just say no! Jenna is right..."tiz the nature of the beast." If you keep feeding the beast....the beast will grow!! Or something like that anyway!!

Reply #4

Posted : 10/06/10

markkempner
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Oh ohhh...this subject (working for nowt etc) is off again!

However, it's the ever growing hoards of actors willing to allow it to go on "regularly" - and our Union never seemingly condoning it that much, which has put us in the position we are in.

The divide between amateur and professional is almost fully dissolved because of it.

I'm all for a bit of collaboration all round…..but to work for Zero all the time…or paying your own travel fares to Scotland from the South, for a casting is professional madness, and does not make any form of business sense to me.

It's simple…you just say no!

Jenna is right..."tiz the nature of the beast." If you keep feeding the beast....the beast will grow!!

Or something like that anyway!!

	Reply #5
Posted : 10/06/10
Jodie.Shanks 58 posts last on: 23/09/11 send private reply	Oh, I ahve said no, believe me! Thing is, I wasn't informed of this before applying/being told I'd got the part/etc. It was described as 'TBC' for payment, which usually means they're still arranging budgets and stuff. The description was 'professional crew', 'hardworking actors needed', 'professional working atmosphere', and then this. It's just annoying. I agree with the above - thanks for your comments.

Reply #5

Posted : 10/06/10

Jodie.Shanks
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last on: 23/09/11
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Oh, I ahve said no, believe me!

Thing is, I wasn't informed of this before applying/being told I'd got the part/etc. It was described as 'TBC' for payment, which usually means they're still arranging budgets and stuff. The description was 'professional crew', 'hardworking actors needed', 'professional working atmosphere', and then this. It's just annoying.

I agree with the above - thanks for your comments.

	Reply #6
Posted : 10/06/10
Allan.OKeefe 710 posts last on: 07/02/12 send private reply	Jodie ... your rant is understandable, but has been with us for 50 years, as I know. Mark Joseph ... I suggest your fingers were tap-dancing over the keys before you put your brain in gear !!. Ask Allan Scott-Douglas why he schlepped down from Scotland last week, for an audition. God knows what he spent !!. The very same day, I travelled to London for an Audition. Cost ? ... £110 !!. Why ? ... because we both weighed up the quality of work we were chasing and, more to the point, the quality of the Casting Directors involved. I got the job, and it's a simple matter of my Agent recouping any outlay made, when Contracts are drawn up. Apart from getting the job, I made an impact on a very busy, and capable, Casting Director, which holds good for future assignments. So Mark, using your principle, I wouldn't have even got into the office !!. It's a gamble, always has been, always will be ... but if you are good, and know you are good, then spend a few bob, and have a gamble on yourself.

Reply #6

Posted : 10/06/10

Allan.OKeefe
710 posts
last on: 07/02/12
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Jodie ... your rant is understandable, but has been with us for 50 years, as I know.
Mark Joseph ... I suggest your fingers were tap-dancing over the keys before you put your brain in gear !!. Ask Allan Scott-Douglas why he schlepped down from Scotland last week, for an audition. God knows what he spent !!. The very same day, I travelled to London for an Audition. Cost ? ... £110 !!.
Why ? ... because we both weighed up the quality of work we were chasing and, more to the point, the quality of the Casting Directors involved.
I got the job, and it's a simple matter of my Agent recouping any outlay made, when Contracts are drawn up. Apart from getting the job, I made an impact on a very busy, and capable, Casting Director, which holds good for future assignments. So Mark, using your principle, I wouldn't have even got into the office !!. It's a gamble, always has been, always will be ... but if you are good, and know you are good, then spend a few bob, and have a gamble on yourself.

	Reply #7
Posted : 10/06/10
Jodie.Shanks 58 posts last on: 23/09/11 send private reply	Allan, I do agree. I took an unpaid role that really paid off. I read the script, I considered the part, I met the crew. My point with this particular case was a) it was an 'extra' role, b) I got no info RE script/character/crew members. It was just sheer arrogance in the thought of 'oh, we can get young/aspiring actors who are trying really hard to get somewhere to do this for nothing becasue they'll be impressed by me'. I do agree with your point on gambles on projects. But only when you're given the chance to learn.

Reply #7

Posted : 10/06/10

Jodie.Shanks
58 posts
last on: 23/09/11
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Allan, I do agree. I took an unpaid role that really paid off. I read the script, I considered the part, I met the crew.

My point with this particular case was a) it was an 'extra' role, b) I got no info RE script/character/crew members. It was just sheer arrogance in the thought of 'oh, we can get young/aspiring actors who are trying really hard to get somewhere to do this for nothing becasue they'll be impressed by me'.

I do agree with your point on gambles on projects. But only when you're given the chance to learn.

	Reply #8
Posted : 10/06/10
markkempner 1113 posts last on: 07/02/12 send private reply	I take your point and agree with that Alan, subject to it being a golden opportunity or whatever, as you say...you have to have the confidence and judgement to "have a punt" now and again, if it's worthwhile for all the right reasons. Never say never in this business! However, I was under the impression Jodie was referring to the usual unpaid work though, and from the look of it, just a Student film maybe? Jodie...can you throw more light on it to avert any confusion!

Reply #8

Posted : 10/06/10

markkempner
1113 posts
last on: 07/02/12
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I take your point and agree with that Alan, subject to it being a golden opportunity or whatever, as you say...you have to have the confidence and judgement to "have a punt" now and again, if it's worthwhile for all the right reasons. Never say never in this business!

However, I was under the impression Jodie was referring to the usual unpaid work though, and from the look of it, just a Student film maybe?

Jodie...can you throw more light on it to avert any confusion!

	Reply #9
Posted : 10/06/10
Jodie.Shanks 58 posts last on: 23/09/11 send private reply	^ It was for Virgin Shorts. Independent. Probably students.

	Reply #10
Posted : 10/06/10
Allan.OKeefe 710 posts last on: 07/02/12 send private reply	Understand completely Mark ( Mark Kempner, that is ). I have always used the principle that, if they want me, they pay for me !! ... it will be on my tombstone. However, this contentious issue will be with us for the next 50 years, and as most people know, because of so much written about Student no pay projects, I decided to give it a go. I was well catered for, well respected, and the end product was reasonable. But , I will not venture again into unpaid territory .. I'm a Pro, with some 50 years experience behind me, and because of that, I am inundated with requests for my services ... thanks, but no thanks. Once is enough .. it will have to be something very special, that entices me forth again. So ... once again, experienced Pro's like Mark Kempner et al, and myself say, elbow all unpaid work !!.

Reply #10

Posted : 10/06/10

Allan.OKeefe
710 posts
last on: 07/02/12
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Understand completely Mark ( Mark Kempner, that is ). I have always used the principle that, if they want me, they pay for me !! ... it will be on my tombstone. However, this contentious issue will be with us for the next 50 years, and as most people know, because of so much written about Student no pay projects, I decided to give it a go. I was well catered for, well respected, and the end product was reasonable. But , I will not venture again into unpaid territory .. I'm a Pro, with some 50 years experience behind me, and because of that, I am inundated with requests for my services ... thanks, but no thanks. Once is enough .. it will have to be something very special, that entices me forth again.
So ... once again, experienced Pro's like Mark Kempner et al, and myself say, elbow all unpaid work !!.

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