An Insult to Actors

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	Topic: An Insult to Actors
Posted : 05/02/10 / Views : 2178 / Replies : 13 /
albertclack 31 posts last on: 3 hours send private reply	Below I reproduce an extract from a post on another website's daily email bulletin (shootingpeople.com) this morning. It's one of the most collectively insulting, arrogant jibes I've ever seen. Separately, this afternoon I was approached to audition for an unpaid role in a student short film. Until now, I might have accepted in a spirit of collaboration; but funnily enough, I declined. Thus: "If you want a decent sound guy, you have to pay him, because the ones who are willing to work for free are crap. However, there is no shortage of actors ... most actors are unprofessional, tardy, ill-prepared, and just out-and-out lousy."

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	Reply #1
Posted : 20/01/10
amandaj 226 posts last on: 43 min send private reply	'Am brindling again....How come then, CCP responses are full of praide for 'the high quality applicants.' Tosh.And, yes, insulting on all levels.

	Reply #2
Posted : 20/01/10
ForbesKB 1039 posts last on: 8 hours send private reply	Well there's a sound guy who will go far in this business! Great attitude!

	Reply #3
Posted : 20/01/10
kqano 220 posts last on: 10 hours send private reply	I don't think she is a sound guy, and as to going far she's listed as resinding in the old US of A. The last part of her post staes: "The minute actors as a whole take themselves seriously and treat it like a BUSINESS and exhibit PROFESSIONALISM, is when we start getting treated as seriously as the sound guy." Indeed, it's the old pay/no-pay section. Till actors refuse to work for nothing, they won't get paid. :o)

Reply #3

Posted : 20/01/10

kqano
220 posts
last on: 10 hours
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I don't think she is a sound guy, and as to going far she's listed as resinding in the old US of A.

The last part of her post staes:

"The minute actors as a whole take themselves seriously and treat it like a BUSINESS and exhibit PROFESSIONALISM, is when we start getting treated as seriously as the sound guy."

Indeed, it's the old pay/no-pay section. Till actors refuse to work for nothing, they won't get paid. :o)

	Reply #4
Posted : 20/01/10
leeravitz 1543 posts last on: 19 hours send private reply	A grandstanding and attention seeking comment it may be, but a realistic appraisal it is not. I can safely say (and with no rancour) that any actor who is proved to be 'unprofessional, tardy, ill-prepared, and just out-and-out lousy' will not work, particularly in the screen industry, beyond the first couple of jobs. Time is money to an exec, after all. The point of the post, as Rob notes, appears to be an appeal for actors to up their level of professional commitment, which is commendable in itself, but expressed here in an essentially crass way. Anyhow, if all actors are so poor in terms of their standards, it is surely a GOOD thing from the perspective of those who do 'hold an edge' because they will get more work in comparison. I sense a festering resentment that the market is oversubscribed feeding this whole commentary. And I still can't really fathom the argument being expressed here - I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume it's a misguided analysis of the fact that the presence of too many poorly trained actors in the marketplace allows creatives to assume actors are a) ten a penny and b) not worth their keep, and forces all actors to be taken for granted, and prices to be kept down. But it is an insulting message in another way - rather than actually mounting a defence of the hard work that many actors do in order to make their work as professional as possible within a job market that does not always treat them with either dignity or respect, this is essentially a 'back handed' call to action that is damning actors even as it exhorts them. What are the writers, producers, directors, crew members who use ShootingPeople to think about the blunt statement that the actors they employ are feckless idiots? It is hardly a message reinforcing confidence in the very people who should be learning how to better work with their actors for the overall benefit of all. Epic fail, as I believe they say, in the Good Ol' U. S. of A.

Reply #4

Posted : 20/01/10

leeravitz
1543 posts
last on: 19 hours
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A grandstanding and attention seeking comment it may be, but a realistic appraisal it is not. I can safely say (and with no rancour) that any actor who is proved to be 'unprofessional, tardy, ill-prepared, and just out-and-out lousy' will not work, particularly in the screen industry, beyond the first couple of jobs. Time is money to an exec, after all.

The point of the post, as Rob notes, appears to be an appeal for actors to up their level of professional commitment, which is commendable in itself, but expressed here in an essentially crass way. Anyhow, if all actors are so poor in terms of their standards, it is surely a GOOD thing from the perspective of those who do 'hold an edge' because they will get more work in comparison. I sense a festering resentment that the market is oversubscribed feeding this whole commentary.

And I still can't really fathom the argument being expressed here - I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume it's a misguided analysis of the fact that the presence of too many poorly trained actors in the marketplace allows creatives to assume actors are a) ten a penny and b) not worth their keep, and forces all actors to be taken for granted, and prices to be kept down.

But it is an insulting message in another way - rather than actually mounting a defence of the hard work that many actors *do* in order to make their work as professional as possible within a job market that does not always treat them with either dignity or respect, this is essentially a 'back handed' call to action that is damning actors even as it exhorts them. What are the writers, producers, directors, crew members who use ShootingPeople to think about the blunt statement that the actors they employ are feckless idiots? It is hardly a message reinforcing confidence in the very people who should be learning how to better work *with* their actors for the overall benefit of all.

Epic fail, as I believe they say, in the Good Ol' U. S. of A.

	Reply #5
Posted : 21/01/10
alibellfish 43 posts last on: 07/02/12 send private reply	Let's face it insulting and not respecting actors really is centuries old. Unfortunately, as with anything, the few ruin it for the many. And yes, I agree with Lee - not helped by this kind of reinforcement.

	Reply #6
Posted : 21/01/10
torya 129 posts last on: 6 hours send private reply	I have been following the no pay/lo pay debate with interest on SP, and felt compelled to comment when I saw this in the bulletin this morning. What a load of rubbish it was.

	Reply #7
Posted : 24/01/10
SamanthaBolter 24 posts last on: 53 min send private reply	Yeah, I stopped subscribing to SP last year.... I can't be bothered with it anymore, all anyone ever seems to do on there is argue and I've never had a decent job from there - CCP all the way!x

	Reply #8
Posted : 24/01/10
classact1 229 posts last on: 01/02/12 send private reply	somebody obviously doesn't live in the real actors world . we are professionals , but don't put yourself in an un-professional situation

	Reply #9
Posted : 25/01/10
leileireid 257 posts last on: 03/02/12 send private reply	oh i am so sticking that in my dissertation is there any chance some one can send me a link though?

	Reply #10
Posted : 25/01/10
GUY5 395 posts last on: 1 hour send private reply	Here's the piece from SP. Re: Does anyone want to pay the actors? BY Ehn Pamela A USA Shooter - Pamela Ehn "The whole point is, if you want paid work, you are looking in the wrong place. Independent film is NOT where the money is. It's a ground for cutting your teeth in,both for the actor and the filmmaker. When the filmmaker finally makes enough films that he can attract a large enough budget to pay his actors, the ones he used to work with usually come along for the ride. That is how it works. And the reason why crew members get paid and not actors is that crew members have specific skills. If you want a decent sound guy, you have to pay him, because the ones who are willing to work for free are crap. However, there is no shortage of actors. I am just sick of the whining, because most of the people who whine are crappy actors with unrealistic expectations. No one is going to offer you a paying job right off the bat. It's just not how it works. And considering that MOST actors are unprofessional, tardy, ill-prepared, and just out-and-out lousy, why would anyone in their right mind respect us enough to pay us? A lot of what actors do simply would not fly in the business world, and what we get paid (bubkes) reflects that. The minute actors as a whole take themselves seriously and treat it like a BUSINESS and exhibit PROFESSIONALISM, is when we start getting treated as seriously as the sound guy." HERE ENDETH PAMELA As a Producer,Director and Actor myself I think Pamela's post has no real credibility whatsoever. It is actually not how it works Professionally Pamela! This actress is no Producer and unfortunately (if she really exists at all and isn't a wind up!!) has marked herself down as not to be employed by lot's of Professionals now.

Reply #10

Posted : 25/01/10

GUY5
395 posts
last on: 1 hour
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Here's the piece from SP.

Re: Does anyone want to pay the actors?
BY Ehn Pamela A USA Shooter - Pamela Ehn

"The whole point is, if you want paid work, you are looking in the wrong place. Independent film is NOT where the money is. It's a ground for cutting your teeth in,both for the actor and the filmmaker. When the filmmaker finally makes enough films that he can attract a large enough budget to pay his actors, the ones he used to work with usually come along for the ride. That is how it works. And the reason
why crew members get paid and not actors is that crew members have specific skills. If you want a decent sound guy, you have to pay him, because the ones who are willing to work for free are crap. However, there is no shortage of actors.

I am just sick of the whining, because most of the people who whine are crappy
actors with unrealistic expectations. No one is going to offer you a paying job right off the bat. It's just not how it works. And considering that MOST actors are unprofessional, tardy, ill-prepared, and just out-and-out lousy, why would anyone in their right mind respect us enough to pay us? A lot of what actors do simply would not fly in the business world, and what we get paid (bubkes) reflects that. The minute actors as a whole take themselves seriously and treat it like a BUSINESS and exhibit PROFESSIONALISM, is when we start getting treated as seriously as the sound guy."

HERE ENDETH PAMELA

As a Producer,Director and Actor myself I think Pamela's post has no real credibility whatsoever. It is actually not how it works Professionally Pamela!

This actress is no Producer and unfortunately (if she really exists at all and isn't a wind up!!) has marked herself down as not to be employed by lot's of Professionals now.

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