Experience is hard to get...

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	Topic: Experience is hard to get...
Posted : 02/09/09 / Views : 1275 / Replies : 10 /
Michael.Efthymiou 23 posts last on: 07/02/12 send private reply	hi everyone, im relatively new to CCP but saw all the disscuision boards so thought I'd add a topic of my own. I'm finding it near impossible to get work as I have next to no expeirience and just hoping some of you may be able to point me in the right direction. I've done two touring TIE (straight after i got out of uni) but now i'm stuck... I just did a normal degree so have no training as such but I cant afford to do a post grad. I'm pretty sure I have the talent, its just noone will give me a look in due to my experience... Any feedeback would be great... cheers guys

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	Reply #1
Posted : 31/08/09
leeravitz 1544 posts last on: 32 min send private reply	Hi Michael, I hear where you are coming from. Everyone will no doubt tell you the usual spiel about how this is a tough game and it's getting tougher, you need more credits etc. etc. but it seems, from your post, that you have started to think positively about your career, have been out and working and are trying your level best to get started. I think doing a post grad, in the long term, is undoubtedly a good idea...but, as you say, it is the financing that is the primary problem. If you have some money behind you, it may be worth looking into alternative training courses which you can take up for lesser periods of time - City Lit, for example, have a good reputation for offering reasonably prized courses that can teach you new and more specific skills (of the sort you would be gaining from drama schools). Equally, though courses cost, they will put you into contact with other actors who are also studying, and these contacts can be your best friend in your early days - meeting other actors can give you opportunities because you never know when someone will want to craft a project with you included, put you onto a good tutor, give you further useful advice, recommend you to an agent etc. And working with fellow actors also teaches you confidence. You must make sure that your CV reads as well as it can do - don't ever belittle the work you have been doing in TIE, and suggest any skills or special abilities you may have as these can sell you to employers in of themselves. Learn to write a good cover letter, which will, at least, ensure people look properly at your credits when considering you for a role. Make sure you are listed in Spotlight. You are right that this will be a bit of an uphill struggle to start with, but, at this stage, what you need to gain is experience - so that later on, you can show people you mean business by presenting them with your extensive list of credits, even if you never get to train formally. They will feel they can trust you because you have done so much. This is a bit of a catch - 22, but I am sure you can find some work if you keep looking. Some of this selling of yourself may all come down to knowing your 'type' better, and learning how to sell your specific talents. Already, you have done TIE, and with a decent company. I appreciate that you may want to achieve other things, but you should always have a good 'in' into getting to do more TIE because you have a past record of employment in the field. You can claim, justifiably, that you have experience of touring productions, and use that as a selling point. You've done at least one student film, so maybe you work well for the camera, and you need to pursue screen acting classes and possibilities. As you played a 'thug' in that one, maybe this is a type of role you could get cast in more often - the majority of screen casting works by 'typecasting' - admittedly, you don't look especially 'thuggish' in your headshot - were you an unusual character whose thuggishness came as a surprise to the audience (in which case you can sell that contradiction between what you look like, and how your characters come across)...or is it simply that you need a more suggestive headshot? I note your surname is obviously of a Greek or Cypriot origin - do you look particularly Mediterranean? Even if you can't do an accent/speak another language, could you look appropriate for Mediterranean parts in the right context? You can play on this to get some very specific work in commercials, some film etc. Hope some of that might help with ideas.

Reply #1

Posted : 31/08/09

leeravitz
1544 posts
last on: 32 min
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Hi Michael,

I hear where you are coming from. Everyone will no doubt tell you the usual spiel about how this is a tough game and it's getting tougher, you need more credits etc. etc. but it seems, from your post, that you have started to think positively about your career, have been out and working and are trying your level best to get started.

I think doing a post grad, in the long term, is undoubtedly a good idea...but, as you say, it is the financing that is the primary problem. If you have some money behind you, it may be worth looking into alternative training courses which you can take up for lesser periods of time - City Lit, for example, have a good reputation for offering reasonably prized courses that can teach you new and more specific skills (of the sort you would be gaining from drama schools). Equally, though courses cost, they will put you into contact with other actors who are also studying, and these contacts can be your best friend in your early days - meeting other actors can give you opportunities because you never know when someone will want to craft a project with you included, put you onto a good tutor, give you further useful advice, recommend you to an agent etc. And working with fellow actors also teaches you confidence.

You must make sure that your CV reads as well as it can do - don't ever belittle the work you have been doing in TIE, and suggest any skills or special abilities you may have as these can sell you to employers in of themselves.

Learn to write a good cover letter, which will, at least, ensure people look properly at your credits when considering you for a role.

Make sure you are listed in Spotlight.

You are right that this will be a bit of an uphill struggle to start with, but, at this stage, what you need to gain is experience - so that later on, you can show people you mean business by presenting them with your extensive list of credits, even if you never get to train formally. They will feel they can trust you because you have done so much. This is a bit of a catch - 22, but I am sure you can find some work if you keep looking.

Some of this selling of yourself may all come down to knowing your 'type' better, and learning how to sell your specific talents. Already, you have done TIE, and with a decent company. I appreciate that you may want to achieve other things, but you should always have a good 'in' into getting to do more TIE because you have a past record of employment in the field. You can claim, justifiably, that you have experience of touring productions, and use that as a selling point. You've done at least one student film, so maybe you work well for the camera, and you need to pursue screen acting classes and possibilities. As you played a 'thug' in that one, maybe this is a type of role you could get cast in more often - the majority of screen casting works by 'typecasting' - admittedly, you don't look especially 'thuggish' in your headshot - were you an unusual character whose thuggishness came as a surprise to the audience (in which case you can sell that contradiction between what you look like, and how your characters come across)...or is it simply that you need a more suggestive headshot?

I note your surname is obviously of a Greek or Cypriot origin - do you look particularly Mediterranean? Even if you can't do an accent/speak another language, could you look appropriate for Mediterranean parts in the right context? You can play on this to get some very specific work in commercials, some film etc.

Hope some of that might help with ideas.

	Reply #2
Posted : 31/08/09
hughosborne 222 posts last on: 08/02/12 send private reply	And Google 'Conservatoire of Dance and Drama': constituent drama schools can offer you a place with funding attached.

	Reply #3
Posted : 31/08/09
Nigel.Peever 345 posts last on: 08/02/12 send private reply	All valid stuff above, a little thing I'd suggest is just photo-shop out those strange black blobs on the wall behind you, although having said that it made me look twice in a... what is that? way. They just look a bit odd on your main portrait. If you can't do it yourself, contact me privately I'll give you my email, you can send me the photo file and I'll soon "clone" them out for you.

	Reply #4
Posted : 31/08/09
Fuzz 628 posts last on: 08/02/12 send private reply	Hi Michael, You do have to sell yourself and create the tools to do this: You can still build up your profile with an outstanding headshot, a voice reel (I made my own), evening classes, you may be eligable for Spotlight etc. With regards the experience you can build up your credits through student films and free work initially. This will take you in the right direction. I hope this is helpful. This is the route I took. x

Reply #4

Posted : 31/08/09

Fuzz
628 posts
last on: 08/02/12
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Hi Michael,
You do have to sell yourself and create the tools to do this: You can still build up your profile with an outstanding headshot, a voice reel (I made my own), evening classes, you may be eligable for Spotlight etc. With regards the experience you can build up your credits through student films and free work initially. This will take you in the right direction.
I hope this is helpful. This is the route I took. x

	Reply #5
Posted : 31/08/09
Mary6 225 posts last on: 08/02/12 send private reply	Just looked at your profile and you did do a drama degree, so most people would class that as training. Just because you didn't go to a major drama school doesn't mean you should sell yourself short. And even if you had done drama school, I always believe that you never stop learning, and I've never stopped doing short courses or workshops. basically just try to auditon for as much as possible, make your own work, network, search the internet and everywhere possible for chances and auditions. A friend of mine, who only did drama at school, and has no formal training at all, has just started acting again in professional productions, and his theory is, which I really admire, that he is determined to push himself to do something he's scared of. So he goes for auditions, asks people for help, and so far he's succeeded.

Reply #5

Posted : 31/08/09

Mary6
225 posts
last on: 08/02/12
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Just looked at your profile and you did do a drama degree, so most people would class that as training. Just because you didn't go to a major drama school doesn't mean you should sell yourself short. And even if you had done drama school, I always believe that you never stop learning, and I've never stopped doing short courses or workshops. basically just try to auditon for as much as possible, make your own work, network, search the internet and everywhere possible for chances and auditions. A friend of mine, who only did drama at school, and has no formal training at all, has just started acting again in professional productions, and his theory is, which I really admire, that he is determined to push himself to do something he's scared of. So he goes for auditions, asks people for help, and so far he's succeeded.

	Reply #6
Posted : 31/08/09
Michael.Efthymiou 23 posts last on: 07/02/12 send private reply	thanks for all of your great tips and advice everyone all very helpful stuff :) Thanks for the tip about the headshot nigel. i should be cool to do that or get the photographer to do that cloning for me. thank you for the offer tho :)

	Reply #7
Posted : 01/09/09
Steven.Rostance1 28 posts last on: 08/02/12 send private reply	Hi Michael I totally feel your pain with regards to not getting a look in to certain things due to lack of drama school training, as I 'only' did a uni course too. I have also considered doing a postgrad but won't because of finances and not wanting to take a year out of the industry at this stage. What I'm doing at the moment is looking at doing as many workshops as I can. I'm about to send my application to the Actor's Centre, and getting in touch with some other places that have been reccommended to me. I think that if you have plenty of these kinds of things on your CV, it shows that you are serious about continuing to learn and progress, and makes up for not going to a drama school in most people's eyes. Hope that helps, and best of luck! Steve

Reply #7

Posted : 01/09/09

Steven.Rostance1
28 posts
last on: 08/02/12
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Hi Michael

I totally feel your pain with regards to not getting a look in to certain things due to lack of drama school training, as I 'only' did a uni course too. I have also considered doing a postgrad but won't because of finances and not wanting to take a year out of the industry at this stage.

What I'm doing at the moment is looking at doing as many workshops as I can. I'm about to send my application to the Actor's Centre, and getting in touch with some other places that have been reccommended to me. I think that if you have plenty of these kinds of things on your CV, it shows that you are serious about continuing to learn and progress, and makes up for not going to a drama school in most people's eyes.

Hope that helps, and best of luck!
Steve

	Reply #8
Posted : 01/09/09
lindsayashworth 81 posts last on: 03/02/12 send private reply	I know I will probably be shot down for what I'm about to say but I'll say it anyway! This industry is probably the most competitive one there is to work in. The current financial climate is not great. For both these reasons, casting directors etc. have to play even safer than they normally do. Yes, there are people without formal training who do well but the majority of people (I'm not say all!) working in equity-paid acting jobs have trained at a Drama School which is accredited by the Conference of Drama Schools. This is not to discourage you but to give yourself the best chance possible I would advise really considering doing a PostGrad or even 3-year course if that is easier to get funding for. You will learn so much, meet professionals in the business and be exposed at a showcase which will give you a good chance of signing with a good agent. If you're really serious, work for a year to save the money you need - time flies and before you know it you've spent 2 years doing badly paid acting work when in that time you could have graduated from a CDS course with a good agent and be entering the business in a much stronger position! As everyone will say, it's possible to work without drama school training and without a good agent but it's a hell of a lot easier with both these things in place and if you intend to be in the business for the long-haul I think you deserve to give yourself the best chance possible of succeeding by investing in your career at this early stage. Good luck! Linds x

Reply #8

Posted : 01/09/09

lindsayashworth
81 posts
last on: 03/02/12
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I know I will probably be shot down for what I'm about to say but I'll say it anyway! This industry is probably the most competitive one there is to work in. The current financial climate is not great. For both these reasons, casting directors etc. have to play even safer than they normally do. Yes, there are people without formal training who do well but the majority of people (I'm not say all!) working in equity-paid acting jobs have trained at a Drama School which is accredited by the Conference of Drama Schools. This is not to discourage you but to give yourself the best chance possible I would advise really considering doing a PostGrad or even 3-year course if that is easier to get funding for. You will learn so much, meet professionals in the business and be exposed at a showcase which will give you a good chance of signing with a good agent. If you're really serious, work for a year to save the money you need - time flies and before you know it you've spent 2 years doing badly paid acting work when in that time you could have graduated from a CDS course with a good agent and be entering the business in a much stronger position!

As everyone will say, it's possible to work without drama school training and without a good agent but it's a hell of a lot easier with both these things in place and if you intend to be in the business for the long-haul I think you deserve to give yourself the best chance possible of succeeding by investing in your career at this early stage.

Good luck!

Linds x

	Reply #9
Posted : 01/09/09
Jenna.Sharpe 209 posts last on: 08/02/12 send private reply	I agree with you Linds about the competition but talent is what matters. Training can hone your talent but it can't create it if it isn't already there on some level. Plus there are ways you can develop your own talent without paying for training such as books, imagination exercises, filming your performances and watching them back... I have attended a few auditions with drama school graduates and been unimpressed by many of their performances. I notice many struggling with being realistic and portraying a normal conversation without going over the top. Sometimes being subtle can be just as powerful as being dramatic. A drama degree may well increase your chance of getting SEEN for an audition though. But once you are there I think it is usually a level playing field in terms of background and experience and you are judged more for your performance and your look. People who have graduated from drama school but have no experience are in the same situation (and I too would count your degree as training) but don't discount your TIE as it is good experience.

Reply #9

Posted : 01/09/09

Jenna.Sharpe
209 posts
last on: 08/02/12
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I agree with you Linds about the competition but talent is what matters.
Training can hone your talent but it can't create it if it isn't already there on some level. Plus there are ways you can develop your own talent without paying for training such as books, imagination exercises, filming your performances and watching them back...

I have attended a few auditions with drama school graduates and been unimpressed by many of their performances. I notice many struggling with being realistic and portraying a normal conversation without going over the top. Sometimes being subtle can be just as powerful as being dramatic.

A drama degree may well increase your chance of getting SEEN for an audition though. But once you are there I think it is usually a level playing field in terms of background and experience and you are judged more for your performance and your look.

People who have graduated from drama school but have no experience are in the same situation (and I too would count your degree as training) but don't discount your TIE as it is good experience.

	Reply #10
Posted : 02/09/09
lindsayashworth 81 posts last on: 03/02/12 send private reply	Absolutely agree Jenna - it is all about getting into the audition in the first place. You can have all the talent in the world but if you're not getting seen then it's a bit like the proverbial tree in the forest! Once you're in it's up to you and any experience you have will definitely give you skills to draw from.

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